As an ex member of Army Intelligence UK, I would like to ask the following question, from a military point. The questions are;
if the Germans were not responsible for the Holocaust, who faked it.
Who : persons responsible, to produce such a believable hoax, you would need at most members of the intelligence community, are we to believe that MI6 MI5, Army Intelligence, the French Secret Service, the NKVD, SPECTRA the GRU, the OSS Military Intelligence USArmy, and another number of organizations got together?
If they did then it must have been some operation, and a degree of co-operation , that we could not achieve in the same unit. But let us agree that they did co-operate.
[Reply by J. Bellingerer.]
This is an interesting point of view which has been expressed in the newsgroups on occasions. The answer, however, is not so simplistic. It was not necessary for the so-called allies to embark upon a crusade of manufacturing the holocaust.
This is my take on it: For a full decade prior to the outbreak of war, atrocity reports had been filtering out of Germany. The reports began in 1933! As soon as the NS's took power.
There is a reference in the London Daily News which reports of a public vandal who placed a plaque over the image of Adolf Hitler at Mme Toussaud's which stated that Hitler was a "mass murderer." This was before the Roehm Purge! Combine that and other incidents and demonstrations throughout the western world during the war years, and one is already perceiving that the stage was being set for a massive propaganda campaign via the media.
Another example: before the end of the war and before any camps in Germany were liberated, Himmler's face appeared on the cover of TIME magazine which showed heaps of emaciated corpses piled high behind his image! This was in late 1944.
AFAIK, the first real "report" to be issued re gas chambers came with the liberation of Madjanek by the Soviets. The western reporters picked up on that theme, and by the time the allies liberated the western camps they were already prepared to discover homicidal gas chambers! They were, in fact, looking for them, as they already had people like Gerstein in custody. The first such camp to be liberated was Ohrdruf, and thousands of allied soldiers were marched past the so-called "gas chamber" and piles of bodies at the camp at the camp. The prupose was to have them form an "obvious" conclusion.
The soldiers "knew" it was a homicidal gas chamber because it had "Vorsicht! Gas!" with a skull painted on the door! Now, most of these GI's and common soldiers may not have known any German, but they did not need to, as the word "GAS!" was clearly stenciled on the door!
They later saw the "homicidal gas chamber" at Dachau similarly designed, along with a notice which read "Gaszeit: etc. THus, the GI's were absolutely convinced that the gas chamber stories which emanated from the Soviet Union were true and factual. They had seen evidence of it with their own eyes and SHAEF had told them so! They had seen the chambers and the bodies with their very own eyes! They had seen the ovens used to cremate the "gassed" victims. Even at Buchenwald, the liberators were told by the Communist dominated welcoming committee of inmates that a homicidal gas chamber was under construction, but the point is, the rumors were already rife and being spread about everywhere--usually by Communist cells. Did not the British and Americans find thousands of corpses in the camps? Had they also not found "shrunken heads," human skin lampshades and books bound in "human skin" as well?
In fact, the sorry condition of the camps lent credence to these reports!
Did the allies not receive confirmation of millions of gassings after "interrogating" the Commandant of Mauthausen after he was "shot whilst trying to escape?" And that figure was for Mauthausen itself!
Returning to Ohrdruf, an allied investigative group was sent there to fully inspect the alleged gassing facilities, and their conclusion was that the facilities could not have been used for mass gassing, according to the book "Inside the vicious heart."
When I go to Washington for research, I intend to dig up these old reports as well. The holocaust as we know it -replete with gas vans and gas trucks and gas chambers and so on, appear to have originated among the communists, in particular in retaliation for the German publicity surrounding the Katyn massacre. The communists stepped up their activity to publish atrocity propaganda after the invasion of the Soviet Union, most likely since they knew their own crimes would be exposed in due course of time.
The main perpetratiors of these stories appears to have been the Soviet Anti-Fascist Committee headed by Ehrenburg. Most of these individuals were later assassinated by order of Stalin after the war, ensuring their silence. Only Ehrenburg managed to hang on and Ehrenburg was devoted to Stalin.
Finally, we have the statement made by American prosecuter Telford Taylor in his recent book reflecting upon the course of events at Nuremberg where he stated that the allies had insufficient evidence of mass atrocitites, so the Soviet representative flew to Moscow to obtain for them all the info they would need in that regard!
Thus, it was no active collusion, but one based upon necessity and upon appearances....such as the horrible condition of many of the camps upon liberation along with the ever ubiquitous cans of Zyklon for delousing and the mandatory fumigation facilitites which were part of every camp.
Along with that, there were enougn real atrocities--hanging, shooting, disease, corporal punishment, and so on, to lend further credence to the mass murder claims.
As British General Frederick Morgan put it, these tales also fed into the agenda of Zionists, thus serving as the clarion call for the largest mass exodous of Jews from foreign lands to Israel since the time of Moses.
When Morgan was interviewed by the media when he was head of UNRRA in Germany, he stated that tens of thousands of Polish Jews were pouring into Germany at an incredible rate and that most of them appeared to be fat, healthy, and possessed of a plan to get out of Europe." (Full quote can be supplied upon request).
Morgan was immediatelly dismissed from his position and replaced by a Jewish representative from New York appointed by Fiorello Guardia. Thus, the holocaust in this conection appears to have been simply the result of varying circumstances all coming into play which were picked up by all the participants in the war against the axis, with no common plan, collusion, or design. This later resulted in the allies attempts to secure confessions by torture and so on, for "facts" which they either surmised or "knew" were true.
A very similar scenario to the case of the knights templar in medieval Europe as well. Same methods, suspicions, and so on.
Furthermore, the SS were already perceived as a formidable threat and thus, they were branded as a criminal orgainization, and in order to make that allegation stick, crimes had to be either proven or devised.
WHY : to keep the Germans down, crush the white race, of course we must
ignore the fact that with the end of the war in Germany the Asian war was
still being fought. Nevertheless, this was the policy until the cold war
broke out as predicted by Reich leaders. The first aim of Churchill's was
to destroy German hegemony in Europe. when this was done, he immediately
tried to train his sights upon Russia, but was voted out of office.
While we can , the military authorities at the time didn't. To the top military, and members of the intelligence of the USA UK and France the battle lines were being redrawn in Asia. And I am not talking about Japan.
We had neither the resources the time and the talent to waste on producing a hoax, But these were POLITICAL, and not military decisions. We had a empire to keep, the French had a empire to keep, and the USA had communism to keep at bay. However, the USA was all in favor of retaining the Soviets as their valiant allies until the Soviets revealed their true faces to American politicians, whose common sense had been effaced by Roosevelt's foreign policy of appeasement to the Soviets.
In fact from an economic and military point of view it was important for Germany to be rebuilt and rearmed as quickly as possible to counter the Soviet threat in Europe , therefore allowing us to fight them and their proxy allies in Africa, the Middle East and Asia.
[Reply by J. Bellinger.] Nevetheless, the hoax took
its own course and assumed a life of its own. This is not what the Germans
were being told immediately after the war by the allies. They were told
that their army was NEVER to be reconstructed again, and that "Prussianism" was to be destroyed forever-until the allied political leaders realized
that Germany would be needed as cannon fodder against the Soviets.
Remember that Patton was abruptly dismissed from his role as Military Gov. of Bavaria for expressing the opinion that the allies should work with the Germans against the Soviets.
You may ignore the Last 40 years of War with the Communist's, but as I took part I wont. So explain to me why various NATO Intelligence agencies while fighting a clandestine war, and it was a war, spent time effort and resources co-operating (I use the word co- operation loosely seeing attempts at co operation first hand), with the enemy, in creating a myth in order to destroy one of our closest and strongest NATO allies. From both a military and intelligence point of view it just doesn't make sense.
[Reply by J.Bellinger]
I do not find this particularly incongruous. Germany was wanted as an ally, but only AFTER the dire threat of world communism was finally perceived in full by the allies. Remember also that Germany never signed a formal peace treaty with the allies either, and that the present German government is simply a reflection of the allies and their policies--a vritual allied puppet state--a collaborationist government which claims to allow freedom but does not..
Germany would be allowed and encouraged to rearm only as a buffer against Communism.
That is my take on this argument anyway.
Did these comments refer to anything I had written
or were they simply comments based upon a reading of the materials on your
REPLY TO TONY CAVANAUGH BY CARLOS PORTER
If I understand Mr. Cavanaugh’s letter correctly -- it is almost incoherent, and in places entirely so -- his contention is that the lie of the gas chambers (which was a “proven fact” embedded in concrete by 1947 at the latest) cannot possibly have been a lie at all, because of the 40 years of so-called anti-Communist activity which allegedly came AFTERWARDS. I love this kind of logic; I just love it.
Ignoring the chronological non-sequitur implied in this objection, may I respectfully suggest that Mr. Cavanaugh read the following books:
THE FAR EAST WAS LOST, by Anthony Kubek,
THE ROOSEVELT MYTH by John T. Flynn,
WHILE YOU SLEPT: OUR TRAGEDY IN ASIA AND WHO MADE IT It by John T. Flynn
ROOSEVELT’S ROAD TO RUSSIA by George N. Crocker,
ARE THE RUSSIANS TEN FEET TALL? by Werner Keller,
THE BEST ENEMY MONEY CAN BUY and
NATIONAL SUICIDE: MILITARY AID TO THE SOVIET UNION by Anthony C. Sutton,
‘TWAS A FAMOUS VICTORY, by Benjamin Colby,
NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON -- 25 YEARS LATER, by John Stormer, all available second hand from www.alibris.com or www.abebooks.com, along with hundreds of other excellent books and periodicals.
May I submit that the United States and Britain have never been anti-Communist? WWII was provoked by the United States and Britain for the sole purpose of destroying the two principal anti-Communist countries in the world, creating a void which could be filled by the Communists. In return for declaring war on Japan the day after Hiroshima, the Soviet Union -- the greatest mass-murderer and mass-enslaver in history -- was given half of Europe, half of Asia, 800 million dollars worth of Japanese military equipment in Manchuria, the Kurile and Sakhalin Islands, and was deliberately built up into a major industrial and military power, all by the United States. The Soviets were given 3 votes in the U.N, as against only one for the United States, plus a veto on the Security Council. Jewish immigrants of Russian and German origin -- Greenglass, Gold, Sobel, Fuchs, Abel, the Rosenbergs, etc. -- were permitted to steal American atomic secrets and transmit them to the Soviets; the Soviets were then given 40 years in which to develop their delivery systems with impunity, along with 80 billion dollars in so-called loans, “trade bridges”, concessions, etc.. The result of all of this was the wars in Indo-China, Korea, and Vietnam. During this period, if you mentioned the Kulaks, the Cambodians, or the Berlin Wall, all you got was ridicule; but if one Jew wanted to emigrate from the Soviet Union, that was a worldwide moral issue.
It is all very well if you have a cushy government job “fighting Communism” with lots of bennies absolutely regardless of what the results are, but the average citizen or soldier expects something better. Was Viet Nam an “anti-Communist” war? If so, then I have known just as many people killed “fighting Communism” as Mr. Cavanaugh, so please don’t give me that one. The sole purpose of the United States in any war between 1933 and 1989 was to fight just long enough to get a lot of people killed, and then give everything away to the Communists over a conference table. World War II was one example, and Viet Nam was just another. That’s all. British ships supplied oil to North Viet Nam at a time when Britain was denying oil to Rhodesia! American pilots had to fly over British ships docked at Haiphong Harbour to bomb targets in the jungle which they couldn’t even see!
Now with the “fall of Communism” -- which has not “fallen” at all, it has simply changed shape and is now more virulent than ever -- we are miraculously allowed to win all our wars (Irak, Serbia), for the sole purpose of creating a vacuum to be filled by Israel and by American multinational corporations (many of them Jewish-controlled).
Communism has ceased to be an economic doctrine, and is now exclusively an anti-racial, anti-national doctrine, Jewish-controlled as ever, a prime component of which is the lie of the German “gas chambers”. Nothing else has changed. I preferred Communism the way it was. One could respect a Communist like Ho-Chi-Mihn. Old-style Communists were prepared to work and study, to plan long-term, to submit to discipline, to take risks. One cannot respect the motley coalition of human flotsam and jetsam who are the Marxists of today. Any decent Communist country would confine them to work camps, to the immense benefit of the world at large.
What Mr. Cavanaugh says about “protecting the colonial empires” makes me laugh. Has he forgotten the Belgian Congo, Katanga, Rhodesia? Which Western leaders does Mr. Cavanaugh consider “anti-Communist”? Truman? Eisenhower? Kennedy? Johnson? Macmillan? Wilson? Mendes France? De Gaulle?
I don’t have time to write hundreds of pages in reply to something like this. When I read letters like Mr. Cavanaugh’s I feel like I am receiving e-mail from another planet. Maybe it was Bill Clinton who chopped down the cherry tree and said “Father, I cannot tell a lie”.
16 NOVEMBER 1999
Soviet propaganda image stolen from http://www.reichslieder.com/reichslieder_Tshirts_150.html
Recommended website: http://www.angelfire.com/ks3/klubs/default.htm (these are the atrocities that America doesn't care about -- America only cares about Jews)